Types of Compact Slow Juicers
A compact slow juicer is a space-efficient appliance designed to extract nutrient-rich juice from fruits, vegetables, and leafy greens using low-speed mastication. Unlike high-speed centrifugal models, slow juicers preserve enzymes, vitamins, and antioxidants by minimizing heat and oxidation during the juicing process. With a growing focus on health and wellness, these juicers have become essential for home users seeking fresh, high-quality juice with maximum yield and shelf life.
There are several types of compact slow juicers, each offering unique benefits in terms of efficiency, nutrient retention, ease of use, and kitchen compatibility. The primary categories include: Masticating Juicers, Twin Gear Juicers, Vertical Slow Juicers, and Horizontal Slow Juicers. Below is a detailed breakdown of each type to help you make an informed decision based on your juicing needs and lifestyle.
Masticating Compact Juicer
Also known as a single-auger or single-gear juicer, this model uses a rotating screw (auger) to crush and press produce at low speeds—typically between 40 to 100 RPM. The slow mastication mimics chewing, minimizing oxidation and preserving nutrients.
Advantages
- High juice yield, especially from leafy greens and wheatgrass
- Minimal foam and oxidation
- Juice stays fresh up to 72 hours when refrigerated
- Quiet operation compared to centrifugal models
- Durable and easy to clean
Limitations
- Slower juicing process than centrifugal types
- Larger footprint than vertical models
- Higher initial cost than basic juicers
Best for: Health enthusiasts, daily juice drinkers, those using lots of greens and herbs
Twin Gear Compact Juicer
Also called a triturating or dual-gear juicer, this advanced model uses two interlocking gears that rotate at very low speeds (typically 110–160 RPM) to crush, grind, and press produce in two stages. This results in the highest juice and nutrient extraction available.
Advantages
- Maximum nutrient and enzyme retention
- Highest juice yield (up to 30% more than other types)
- Excellent for wheatgrass, sprouts, and fibrous vegetables
- Produces dry pulp, indicating efficient extraction
- Long shelf life for stored juice (up to 5 days)
Limitations
- Most expensive slow juicer type
- Complex assembly and cleaning process
- Larger size and heavier weight
- Longer prep time for ingredients
Best for: Serious juicers, commercial use, raw foodists, and those prioritizing maximum nutrition
Vertical Compact Slow Juicer
Designed with a vertical auger and a streamlined body, this space-saving model operates at around 50–80 RPM. It combines the benefits of slow juicing with a minimal footprint, making it ideal for small kitchens.
Advantages
- Extremely compact and countertop-friendly
- Easier to store and transport
- Simpler assembly and cleaning than horizontal models
- Good performance for soft fruits and vegetables
- Affordable entry point into slow juicing
Limitations
- Lower efficiency with leafy greens and wheatgrass
- Smaller feed chute requires more prep time
- Lower juice yield compared to masticating or twin gear models
Best for: Urban dwellers, apartment kitchens, occasional juicers, and beginners
Horizontal Compact Slow Juicer
Featuring a horizontally positioned auger, this model offers powerful mastication similar to traditional masticating juicers but in a more compact design than full-sized horizontal units. It operates at low speeds (40–80 RPM) for optimal nutrient preservation.
Advantages
- Better juice extraction than vertical models
- Excellent for leafy greens, herbs, and fibrous produce
- Quieter and more efficient than centrifugal juicers
- Balances performance and space-saving design
- Longer juice shelf life due to low oxidation
Limitations
- Slightly larger than vertical compact models
- May require more cleaning effort than vertical types
- Premium pricing compared to basic juicers
Best for: Intermediate users wanting better performance in a compact form
| Type | Speed (RPM) | Juice Yield | Nutrient Retention | Best For |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Masticating | 40–100 | High | Excellent | Daily use, leafy greens, wheatgrass |
| Twin Gear | 110–160 | Very High | Exceptional | Max nutrition, commercial use, raw diets |
| Vertical Compact | 50–80 | Medium | Good | Small kitchens, beginners, soft produce |
| Horizontal Compact | 40–80 | High | Very Good | Balanced performance and space efficiency |
Expert Tip: For optimal performance and longevity, always clean your slow juicer immediately after use. Most models have dishwasher-safe parts, but hand washing ensures all pulp residue is removed from the auger and screen, preventing clogs and odors.
Choosing the right compact slow juicer depends on your juicing frequency, kitchen space, budget, and dietary goals. Whether you're a beginner exploring daily juicing or a health-focused user maximizing nutrient intake, there's a compact slow juicer designed to meet your needs.
Industrial Applications of Compact Slow Juicer
Compact slow juicers have evolved from household appliances into essential tools across multiple commercial sectors. Leveraging cold-press technology, these juicers preserve vital nutrients, enzymes, and flavor by operating at low speeds (typically 40–80 RPM), minimizing heat and oxidation. This results in higher juice yield, extended shelf life, and superior nutritional content compared to centrifugal juicers. As consumer demand for fresh, organic, and health-focused beverages grows, industries are increasingly integrating compact slow juicers into their operations to deliver premium, on-demand products.
Key Advantage: Cold-pressed juice retains up to 3–5 times more vitamins, minerals, and live enzymes than conventionally extracted juice, making it ideal for health-centric commercial applications.
Food and Beverage Industry
Restaurants & Cafés
Upscale restaurants and specialty cafés use compact slow juicers to craft signature juice blends, smoothies, and mocktails in-house. By producing juice fresh daily, they eliminate dependency on pre-packaged alternatives, ensuring superior taste and quality control. This also enhances menu authenticity—customers appreciate knowing their drinks are made from real, whole ingredients without preservatives or pasteurization.
Many establishments highlight their cold-press process as a brand differentiator, appealing to health-conscious diners and boosting perceived value.
Juice Bars & Fast-Casual Chains
Dedicated juice bars rely heavily on slow juicers to offer a rotating menu of nutrient-packed beverages. The compact design allows for efficient use of limited counter space, while the quiet operation ensures a pleasant customer experience. Chains like Pressed Juicery and Juice Press have standardized cold-press systems across locations, ensuring consistency and scalability.
Operators can prepare large batches during off-peak hours and store juice in nitrogen-flushed bottles, extending freshness up to 72 hours without refrigeration.
Health and Wellness Industry
Gyms and Fitness Centers
Fitness facilities integrate slow juicers into on-site nutrition bars to provide post-workout recovery drinks rich in electrolytes, antioxidants, and plant-based proteins. Popular blends include kale, cucumber, lemon, ginger, and apple—designed to reduce inflammation and support muscle repair.
Offering fresh juice enhances member satisfaction and encourages longer stays, increasing ancillary revenue from smoothie add-ons or protein boosts.
Spas and Wellness Retreats
Luxury spas and holistic retreats use cold-pressed juices as part of detox programs, cleanse packages, and wellness rituals. Guests receive customized juice regimens tailored to their health goals—such as alkalizing, immune support, or digestion enhancement.
The visual appeal of vibrant green, red, and yellow juices complements the serene environment, reinforcing the brand’s commitment to natural, chemical-free living.
Retail and Grocery Stores
Major grocery chains—including Whole Foods Market, Trader Joe’s, and Wegmans—have introduced in-store juicing stations powered by compact slow juicers. These setups allow retailers to offer freshly made, cold-pressed juices without the logistical challenges of sourcing bottled products.
Catering Services
Professional caterers are incorporating slow juicers into event setups for weddings, corporate galas, and wellness expos. Instead of serving sugary sodas or processed beverages, they offer guests a refreshing selection of cold-pressed juices—such as beet-apple-ginger, carrot-orange-turmeric, or cucumber-mint-lime.
Mobile juicing stations create an interactive experience, allowing guests to watch their juice being made in real time. This not only adds a premium touch but also aligns with modern dietary preferences, including vegan, gluten-free, and low-sugar options.
Wellness Programs in Corporations
Forward-thinking companies are installing in-office juice bars equipped with compact slow juicers as part of employee wellness initiatives. Tech giants like Google and Apple offer daily juice options to promote hydration, energy, and mental clarity.
These programs aim to reduce reliance on caffeine and processed snacks, fostering a culture of health and productivity. Some employers even provide subsidized juice passes or track participation in wellness challenges, further incentivizing healthy habits.
| Industry | Primary Use Case | Key Benefit |
|---|---|---|
| Food & Beverage | On-demand fresh juice for menus | Improved taste, freshness, and customer trust |
| Health & Wellness | Detox and recovery programs | Enhanced nutrient delivery and client satisfaction |
| Retail | In-store fresh juice production | Reduced waste, higher margins, brand differentiation |
| Catering | Live juice stations at events | Premium guest experience and customization |
| Corporate Wellness | Employee health and morale | Increased productivity and reduced absenteeism |
Pro Tip: For commercial use, select slow juicers with commercial-grade motors, easy disassembly, and dishwasher-safe parts to ensure durability, hygiene, and efficient cleaning between batches.
Product Specifications and Features of Compact Slow Juicer
A compact slow juicer is more than just a kitchen appliance—it's a precision-engineered device designed to maximize nutrition, flavor, and efficiency in juice extraction. Understanding its technical specifications and functional features is essential not only for end users but also for retailers, wholesalers, and health-focused businesses aiming to recommend or stock high-value products. These juicers operate on the principle of cold-press mastication, preserving enzymes and nutrients by minimizing heat and oxidation during the juicing process.
Motor Power (200–400 Watts)
Compact slow juicers are equipped with energy-efficient motors ranging from 200 to 400 watts. Unlike high-speed centrifugal juicers, these models use low RPM (typically 40–80 revolutions per minute), which significantly reduces noise levels and heat generation—key factors in preserving nutrient integrity.
- Efficient Crushing: Despite lower wattage, the motor delivers high torque to effectively crush fibrous vegetables like kale, celery, and wheatgrass, as well as hard produce such as apples, carrots, and beets.
- Energy Conservation: The low-speed operation consumes less electricity, making it an eco-friendly choice for daily use.
- Quiet Performance: Ideal for home use, especially in apartments or early-morning routines, without disturbing household members.
Pro Insight: A 300W+ motor with thermal overload protection ensures durability and safe long-term operation.
Juicing Mechanism: Single Auger vs. Twin Gear
The core of a slow juicer’s performance lies in its masticating mechanism. Most compact models use either a single auger or twin gear system, each offering distinct advantages based on user needs and produce types.
- Single Auger: Features a corkscrew-style screw that slowly grinds and presses produce against a fine mesh filter. This design is common in compact models due to its simplicity, ease of cleaning, and cost-effectiveness.
- Twin Gear (Dual Gear): Utilizes two interlocking gears that rotate in opposite directions to crush and press ingredients with exceptional efficiency. Known for higher juice yield and better performance with leafy greens, though typically found in larger or premium units.
- Material Quality: High-end augers are made from durable, BPA-free engineering plastics or reinforced composites to resist wear and cracking.
Retailer Tip: Single auger models are ideal for entry-level users; twin gear suits serious juicers seeking maximum nutrition extraction.
Juice Extraction Efficiency (Up to 90%)
One of the standout benefits of compact slow juicers is their superior juice yield. By using a slow, methodical masticating process, they extract significantly more liquid from fruits and vegetables compared to centrifugal models—often achieving up to 90% efficiency.
- Nutrient Retention: Minimal oxidation and heat ensure vitamins (like C and B-complex), enzymes, and phytonutrients remain intact for longer-lasting, more nutritious juice.
- Less Waste: The drier pulp output means more juice has been extracted, reducing food waste and improving cost efficiency over time.
- Consistent Output: Ideal for cold-pressed juice businesses or health-conscious consumers who want every drop of nutrition.
Key Selling Point: Highlight juice yield comparisons in product demos—customers notice the drier pulp and richer output.
Pulp Separation & Dual Pulp Bins
Effective pulp separation is critical for producing smooth, restaurant-quality juice. Most compact slow juicers feature precision-engineered filters and internal channels that efficiently separate juice from fiber.
- Smooth Juice Output: Fine mesh filters ensure minimal pulp in the final juice, appealing to those who prefer a clean, silky texture.
- Dual Pulp Collection (in select models): Some advanced units include separate bins for soft (e.g., oranges, tomatoes) and hard produce (e.g., carrots, ginger), allowing users to optimize processing and maintain hygiene.
- Easy Maintenance: Removable pulp containers and accessible filters make cleanup faster and more convenient.
Customer Benefit: Cleaner juice with less froth and foam enhances taste and visual appeal—perfect for social media-savvy users.
Speed Settings: Single vs. Dual Speed
While most compact slow juicers operate at a single optimal speed (ideal for mastication), higher-end models offer dual-speed functionality to handle different types of produce more effectively.
- Low Speed (e.g., 45 RPM): Perfect for leafy greens, herbs, and wheatgrass, where slow crushing maximizes juice and nutrient extraction.
- High Speed (e.g., 75 RPM): Better suited for harder fruits and vegetables like apples, beets, and carrots, speeding up processing without sacrificing quality.
- User-Friendly Design: Single-speed models are excellent for beginners or those seeking simplicity; dual-speed options offer versatility for experienced users.
Usage Tip: Always start with low speed for greens, then switch to high for dense produce to extend motor life.
Hopper Size & Feed Chute Design
Due to their compact footprint, these juicers typically feature a smaller feed chute (around 1.5–2 inches). While this requires pre-cutting ingredients, it enhances safety and pressure during juicing.
- Preparation Required: Users must chop larger items like apples or cucumbers into smaller pieces before feeding them in—this can be seen as a minor inconvenience but ensures consistent processing.
- Safety First: Smaller chutes reduce the risk of finger injury and are often equipped with pusher tools made from food-safe materials.
- Space-Saving Advantage: The compact design makes it ideal for small kitchens, RVs, offices, or dorm rooms where counter space is limited.
Retail Advantage: Emphasize portability and sleek design—these juicers often double as lifestyle products.
Professional Recommendation: When advising customers, focus on their juicing goals. For casual users and small households, a single-auger, single-speed model with 250–300W power offers excellent value. For serious health enthusiasts or small-scale juice entrepreneurs, recommend models with dual speed, higher wattage, and enhanced filtration for maximum yield and longevity.
| Feature | Standard Model | Premium Model | Best For |
|---|---|---|---|
| Motor Power | 200–300W | 350–400W | Home use / light juicing |
| Juicing Mechanism | Single Auger | Twin Gear or Advanced Auger | Leafy greens & versatility |
| Speed Options | Single Speed | Dual Speed | Beginners vs. experts |
| Juice Yield Efficiency | 75–85% | 85–90%+ | Nutrition-focused users |
| Pulp Management | Single Bin | Dual Bin System | Frequent juicing / commercial use |
Additional Considerations for Retailers and Buyers
- Warranty and Support: Premium brands often offer 10–15 year warranties, reflecting confidence in motor and auger durability.
- Cleaning Ease: Look for models with self-cleaning functions or dishwasher-safe parts to improve user experience.
- Noise Level: Typically under 60 dB, making them suitable for quiet environments.
- BPA-Free Materials: Ensure all food-contact components are certified non-toxic and safe.
- Brand Reputation: Trusted manufacturers invest in R&D, ensuring quiet operation, high yield, and long-term reliability.
How to Choose the Best Compact Slow Juicer
Selecting the right compact slow juicer is essential for both personal use and commercial resale. These versatile appliances offer superior juice quality, nutrient retention, and quiet operation, making them ideal for health-conscious consumers and businesses alike. Whether you're a retailer, distributor, or home user, understanding the key features and differences among models will help you make informed purchasing decisions that align with your target market’s needs.
Important Note: Slow juicers (also known as masticating juicers) operate at low speeds (typically 40–80 RPM), minimizing heat and oxidation. This process preserves enzymes, vitamins, and antioxidants far better than high-speed centrifugal juicers, resulting in fresher, longer-lasting juice with higher nutritional value.
Key Factors to Consider When Choosing a Compact Slow Juicer
- Brand Reputation and Reliability
A well-established brand often reflects consistent quality, customer support, and product durability. Brands like Omega, Kuvings, Aicok, and Tribest have built strong reputations in the slow juicing market through innovation, performance, and long-term reliability.
If brand isn't a priority, shift focus to verified customer satisfaction, third-party reviews, and build quality. Look for models with robust motors, durable materials (such as BPA-free plastics or stainless steel components), and comprehensive warranties. Prioritize features like overload protection and thermal safety to ensure longevity.
- Type of Compact Slow Juicer
Understanding the different types of slow juicers helps match the right model to specific usage scenarios:
- Masticating (Single Auger): Uses a single rotating screw to crush and press produce. Offers excellent yield and versatility across fruits, vegetables, leafy greens, and wheatgrass.
- Twin Gear (Twin Auger): Features two interlocking gears that slowly grind and press ingredients. Delivers the highest juice yield and nutrient extraction, ideal for commercial kitchens, juice bars, or serious enthusiasts.
- Vertical Slow Juicers: Space-saving design with upright configuration. Easier to clean and store, suitable for small kitchens or countertop use.
- Horizontal Slow Juicers: Traditional layout with horizontal auger. Typically more efficient for continuous juicing but may require more counter space.
Recommendation: For high-volume operations, twin gear models are best. For home users or resellers targeting urban dwellers, compact vertical models offer convenience and aesthetics.
- Juice Quality and Nutrient Retention
The primary advantage of slow juicers is their ability to produce high-quality juice with minimal oxidation. Among compact models, twin gear juicers extract the most juice and preserve the highest nutrient levels due to their powerful compression and slow processing speed.
All slow juicers outperform centrifugal models by reducing foam, separating pulp more effectively, and extending juice shelf life (up to 72 hours when refrigerated). This makes them ideal for meal prep, detox programs, and retail juice packaging.
- Easy of Cleaning and Maintenance
Cleanability significantly impacts user satisfaction and repeat usage. Many modern compact slow juicers feature detachable parts that are dishwasher-safe, reducing post-use cleanup time.
Look for models with fewer components, wide feeding chutes (to reduce pre-cutting), and self-cleaning functions. Some brands offer specialized cleaning brushes and quick-disassembly designs that enhance hygiene and convenience—key selling points for busy consumers.
- Noise Level and Operational Environment
Compact slow juicers operate at significantly lower noise levels (typically 40–60 dB) compared to centrifugal juicers (often exceeding 90 dB). This quiet operation makes them perfect for early morning juicing, offices, wellness centers, yoga studios, or libraries.
For commercial resale, highlight this feature to customers seeking discreet, peaceful kitchen appliances. It also enhances user experience in shared living spaces or apartments where noise sensitivity is a concern.
- Pulp Container Capacity and Design
A large pulp container reduces the need for frequent emptying, especially during batch juicing. Most compact models include a mid-sized container (500ml–1L), sufficient for 3–5 servings.
Advanced models feature dual pulp ejection systems—one for wet pulp (like oranges or cucumbers) and another for dry pulp (like kale or wheatgrass). This separation improves efficiency and reduces clogging, enhancing overall performance and ease of use.
| Juicer Type | Best For | Juice Yield | Cleaning Difficulty | Ideal User |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Masticating (Single Auger) | Daily home use, leafy greens, wheatgrass | High | Medium | Families, health enthusiasts |
| Twin Gear | Commercial use, maximum nutrient extraction | Very High | High | Juice bars, professionals |
| Vertical Compact | Small kitchens, easy storage | Good | Low to Medium | Urban dwellers, beginners |
| Horizontal Masticating | Continuous juicing, versatility | High | Medium | Experienced users, larger households |
Expert Tip: When reselling compact slow juicers, bundle them with accessories like cleaning brushes, recipe books, or reusable juice bottles. This added value increases perceived worth and can boost sales, especially during health-focused seasons like New Year or spring detox periods.
Additional Selection Tips for Resellers and Retailers
- Offer demonstration units in-store or through video content to showcase ease of use and juice quality.
- Stock models with strong online review ratings (4.5+ stars on major platforms) to reduce return rates.
- Consider energy efficiency and motor wattage—higher torque motors handle tough ingredients better and last longer.
- Evaluate return policies and warranty terms from suppliers to ensure customer satisfaction and trust.
- Promote the health benefits of cold-pressed juice to align with wellness trends and functional food markets.
Choosing the right compact slow juicer involves balancing performance, design, ease of use, and market demand. By focusing on these key factors, you can confidently select or recommend models that deliver exceptional value, satisfy customers, and stand out in a competitive marketplace. Whether for personal use or resale, investing in a high-quality slow juicer supports long-term health goals and sustainable living practices.
Frequently Asked Questions About Compact Slow Juicers
Yes, modern compact slow juicers are designed to efficiently process hard produce such as carrots, apples, beets, and ginger. Despite their smaller size, they feature powerful motors (typically ranging from 150–250 watts) and durable, precision-engineered augers made from high-grade materials like reinforced plastic or stainless steel.
The slow mastication process—usually operating between 40–80 RPM—allows the juicer to crush and press tough fibers thoroughly, extracting maximum juice while preserving nutrients. This low-speed grinding also generates less heat, helping retain enzymes and flavor that high-speed juicers often destroy.
- Best for: Carrots, apples, celery root, turmeric, and ginger.
- Tips: Cut harder items into smaller pieces before feeding to prevent clogging and ensure smooth operation.
- Note: Avoid extremely fibrous or woody stems unless specified by the manufacturer.
Absolutely. One of the key advantages of slow juicers—also known as cold-press or masticating juicers—is their ability to extend the shelf life of freshly made juice. Because they operate at much lower speeds than centrifugal models, they minimize oxidation and foam buildup during extraction.
This reduced exposure to air and heat helps preserve vital vitamins (like vitamin C), enzymes, and phytonutrients, keeping your juice fresh and nutritionally potent for up to 72 hours when stored properly in an airtight container in the refrigerator.
- Centrifugal juicers: Juice lasts 24–48 hours due to high-speed spinning and increased oxidation.
- Slow juicers: Juice stays fresh 48–72 hours, with some users reporting good quality even after 5 days.
- Storage tip: Fill containers completely to reduce air contact and use dark glass bottles to protect against light degradation.
No, most compact slow juicers are designed with user convenience in mind, including easy cleaning. While they have more parts than centrifugal models, manufacturers have optimized disassembly and reassembly for quick maintenance.
Many components—including the juicing screen, auger, pulp container, and juice jug—are dishwasher-safe (top rack recommended), significantly reducing cleanup time. Additionally, some models feature self-cleaning functions or require only a quick rinse under running water immediately after use to prevent residue buildup.
- Cleaning time: Typically 3–5 minutes with immediate rinsing.
- Pro tip: Run a small amount of water through the machine right after juicing to flush out pulp.
- Deep clean: Recommended once a week with a soft brush to remove any trapped fibers.
Compact slow juicers are primarily designed for personal or household use, making them ideal for individuals or small families. While they can be used in small-scale business settings—such as home-based juice bars, pop-up stands, or wellness studios—they are not built for high-volume, continuous operation.
Due to their smaller feed chutes and slower processing speed, they require more frequent loading and cleaning during extended use, which can reduce efficiency. For commercial operations needing to produce large quantities of juice quickly, commercial-grade centrifugal or industrial twin-gear masticating juicers are better suited.
| Use Case | Compact Slow Juicer | Commercial Juicer |
|---|---|---|
| Output Capacity | Low to moderate (1–2 servings per minute) | High (3+ servings per minute) |
| Duty Cycle | Limited (10–15 min max per session) | Extended (can run 30+ mins continuously) |
| Space Required | Minimal (countertop-friendly) | Larger footprint |
| Best For | Home use, small batches, health-focused users | Cafés, juice bars, catering services |
If you're running a small business with limited space and low daily demand, a compact slow juicer may suffice. However, consider upgrading to a commercial model as your volume grows.
The main difference lies in the orientation of the auger (the screw-like component that crushes and presses produce), which affects design, performance, and usability:
- Horizontal Slow Juicers: Feature a horizontally positioned auger that rotates from side to side. These models typically offer higher juice yield and better nutrient retention due to longer processing time and more thorough extraction. They’re excellent for leafy greens, wheatgrass, and soft fruits but tend to be slightly larger and noisier.
- Vertical Slow Juicers: Have a vertically aligned auger that turns from bottom to top. They are more compact, easier to store, and often quieter. While slightly less efficient with fibrous greens, they handle most common fruits and vegetables well and are ideal for users with limited counter space.
| Feature | Horizontal Juicer | Vertical Juicer |
|---|---|---|
| Auger Orientation | Side-to-side (horizontal) | Bottom-to-top (vertical) |
| Juice Yield | Higher (up to 30% more from greens) | Moderate |
| Footprint | Larger | Compact and space-saving |
| Noise Level | Moderate to high | Quieter operation |
| Ideal For | Nutrition-focused users, green juice enthusiasts | Small kitchens, casual juicing |
Your choice depends on your priorities: choose horizontal for maximum efficiency and nutrition, or vertical for convenience and space savings.








浙公网安备
33010002000092号
浙B2-20120091-4
Comments
No comments yet. Why don't you start the discussion?